July 24, 2011
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Rapists the Raped & Rape Avoidance
Sometimes I so want to slap people they are so stupid. They get so wrapped up in some issue that everything relates to it and they end up looking like an idiots to everyone other than fellow true believers.
The issue is rape. On one hand we have a discussion on the fact that woman should be safe. It is all about law and order, punishing the criminals. And convincing other potential criminals that they best not even think about that crime.
Then we have the victims letting them know that nothing they did justified the criminal. It matters not if you gave the guy a lap dance, that did not give him the right to bash in your face and poke you in the butt. The rapist was a criminal and you are innocent of any responsibly for their crime.
Then we have good advice on not getting raped. There are rapists out there, they certainly do exists. Do not draw their attention by dressing like a prostitute (favored victims) protect yourself from them. A lot of rapes happen to drunk girls at parties full of drunk guys. Consider ether not going to those parties or have people there looking out for you.
Three subjects, none conflict with the other. Good advice is not telling anyone it is ok to hit a prostitute over the head and then do her in the butt while she is unconscious, or to have sex with passed out drunk girls. Good advice on avoiding a rape is not telling the victims of these crimes that it all their fault.Putting a lock on your front door is not telling the world that is your fault if your house gets broken into.
Yes I say the slut walks are run by morons. It is all good while in a large group. But dress like that down town at 4 am by yourself and well good luck with that. You are going to need all the luck you can get. Or a large caliber handgun.
Comments (33)
Common sense should rule the day. It’s like robbery where our best efforts are made protecting our goodies from being stolen.
My raping was just one of those out of the blue occurances. I was in the privacy of my own living space, a women’s ashram of all things.
And the prep had been planning his move for a long time. He was a burglar who had been casing the joint and I was at the wrong place at the wrong time when he decided to make his move on the place.
A lot of crime is like that. People are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Using common sense isn’t bad or blaming women for rape. It irks me like nothing else when people tell me that I’m condemning rape victims because I dare suggest they not go out alone on a bad street in the middle of the night. Hell, I wouldn’t do that if I was a man.
I believe in a perfect world we could all walk around naked and not have fear of being violated. Unfortunately we live in a world with monsters. It is wise to avoid them as best you can.
Certainly, topics like these can be very emotional for people and responses can become heated. You make a good point that, like with any crime, there are things we can do to protect ourselves and reduce the risk of the crime occurring, but even if we don’t take all those protections, that doesn’t mean the criminal is any less guilty.
I guess we can have rape victims answer this but it is my understanding that most people are raped by someone they know. I get the impression from most of the women who were victim of rape that they were raped in their home, his home, in the car or in a situation that was one on one.
So when we talk about a woman giving a lap dance to a guy or being dressed in a provocative way, I think we have a small portion of the actual rapes. I tend to think rape is something that happens one on one and really is about opportunity where someone thinks they can get away with it with someone they know.
In other words, we can think of a few cases that are highlighted in the media where a stripper was raped or the woman was dressed in provocative clothes, but we are then talking about a situation that is very much different from the typical experience of women that have been raped.
So lets hear from the rape victims that read all of this. Did you give the guy a lap dance or were you dressed in a provocative way when you were raped?
@TheTheologiansCafe - Agreed.
I don’t think you understand the mindset of a rapist, Paige. It doesn’t matter what a woman wears, it doesn’t even matter where she is or if she’s out partying. Rape is about control, not about taking advantage of people that look like they are so called “asking for it.”
Rape is a control issue over the person.
There are times when even husband rape their wives some might not consider it rape because of their titles but when something is not welcomed it’s still rape.
As far as I’ve known, rape has happen to immature people who get drunk but not as much as those who are predisposed to someone close who just wants to take advantage. I agree @TheTheologiansCafe -
@six6vi - @TheTheologiansCafe - Exactly! I work at a rape crisis center. The majority of rape victims are raped by someone they know (65 to 70%). Most rapes are planned in advance (thus ruling out what victims were wearing) and executed when the victim has let his or her guard down. All that stuff people say about not dressing provocatively and avoiding dark alleys late at night, may be good advice, but it’s mostly irrelevant to the crime of rape. Acquaintance rape is the most common type, which is when the victim has casually met the person, and been in contact with them a few times. Just enough to not see it coming. This is the reason that while 1 in 6 women in the US will be a victim of rape at some point, it goes up to 1 in 4 on a college campus. Higher numbers of people coming into casual contact in a small area.
Also, if I wear nice jewelry and clothes, I’m not asking to be mugged or robbed and if police or other people said I was we would all think they were crazy.
If someone chooses to commit a crime, it is not the victim’s fault. What they did was illegal. Bottom line: Let’s stop blaming the victim, and make criminals be responsible for their actions.
Agreed. I think I should be able to wear whatever I want but I’m not so stupid as to think I can dress a certain way and go wherever I want and not expect at the least some looks. There is a fine line, and we can’t assume that people are going to be good. Unfortunately. I also agree with some of the comments above about rape being by someone you know. It really bothers me that most rape ‘help’ tips are about avoiding rape in an alley or at a club or something but very rarely do I see tips on how to handle if a friend or family member hurts you.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Totally agree. I have never been raped, but I have been in a situation where I thought I was going to be. Yes, I did a few things I shouldn’t have, like get drunk. But I was with friends who I thought could be trusted, people I thought I knew, and went to the party still wearing what I’d worn to my job as a business English teacher earlier that day (in other words, a fairly conservative outfit.).
I do think people should take measures to protect themselves, but I also think that just because someone doesn’t, it doesn’t make the criminal any less wrong. Just because it’s stupid of me to leave my door unlocked in a dangerous neighbourhood doesn’t mean that a burglar is justified in entering.
I agree with TheTheologiansCafe on this one. The most common rapist is a husband or a partner. I hope that blows your mind a little, or gives you a little more sense on this issue.
I agree there are things to do that can reduce the likelihood of rape of a certain type. But this assumes a lot of things about rapists and victims. Not all rape victims dress like prostitutes, not all rape victims are drunk when it happens, and not all rape victims are walking alone in the dead of night when it happens.
Many rape victims are forced to have sex when they are just coming into or out of puberty — forced by their uncles, their brothers’ friends, their mothers’ boyfriends or their babysitters’ husbands. They didn’t do anything to invite it, they just don’t have the strength or awareness to know how to rebuff the advances. There’s a lot of fear wrapped up in an encounter like that. We need to better equip young girls on how to use “no” and mean it, and maybe give them some basic jiu-jitsu skills.
its actually really sad that women have to limit the things they do in order to protect themselves. the world should not have to be that way. are we not allowed to wear swimsuits to the pool anymore? are we supposed to wear turtleneck shirts in clubs/bars?
Being an undergraduate criminal justice student, I can tell you now that “stranger rape” is the LEAST common form of rape. Acquaintance rape is the number 1 form of rape, at least in America. Women (hey, sometimes men, too, you know) will more often get raped by their spouse, boyfriend, best friend (or, rather, “best” friend), or some guy they know casually.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Sort of missing the point aren’t you? Date rape is hard to avoid but dressing like a hooker and walking the worst part of town at 2am can be done. And knowing a person tends to fit into the drunken party advice. Which is a very common way to end up raped and the sort of rape that tends to not be reported. As a matter of fact that just happened to a friend of mine. She cant remember if she might have not said no. The guy she knows him and hates him but she knows him. That crime was never reported.
As I said good advice the way things should be the evil of rape are three different subjects that are not in conflict. To say because rape should not happen that you should not be careful is simple stupidity. Do you all lock you cars at night?
@achingquotes - @queenof__hearts - @SecretNeverTold - @EccentricSiren - @Pink_TeaCups - @bethro78 -
Ok did you all miss the point? r
@TheTheologiansCafe - To answer this, no. I was 14 and I was wearing blue jeans and a tshirt. I was a tomboy. The guy was a guy I knew for about a month and he showed interest in me. We hung out a couple of times in group settings and then one afternoon he asked if I wanted to come over and hang out, watch a movie. He also told me that people would be there so it wasn’t going to be one on one. When I got to his house, which was one block away from where I lived, he made some excuse that his sister who owned the house went out to run an errand and she would be right back. That’s when he raped me.
You know, I’m pretty sure all of the abuse I suffered was strictly about what I was wearing and how much I was drinking. I mean… I should have known better at 11 to wear a swimming suit around that guy. It was a reasonable expectation that I should maintain covered up at all times.
And when I told the other one no, very clearly, yeah… It doesn’t matter that I was fully clothed, wearing jeans a normal top. Naw…
Or with the other friend… I mean, I was sober and looked pretty good. But he was drunk and didn’t like to hear no.
You’re right paige. This all could have been avoided if I didn’t act and dress like such a whore.
You know, that’s what the ex boss claimed. That it was all just me changing my mind because I was jealous that he wouldn’t date me. That because I had been drinking he had the right to push me into any situation that he could have. Guess what! In Washington State, it is IMPOSSIBLE to give consent if you are intoxicated. Does that matter? According to you and your wisdom, nope. According to you and your wisdom we get what we deserve for being around men when we’re drinking and wearing slutty clothing. How dare we.
@SasGal - You do know that ether you did not read what i wrote, or you are unable to read at all
we can’t be free in this world. we can’t be free to dress a little flirty and go to a concert. suddenly, a girl is not allowed to be a girl anymore. her little black dress to her is cute and her friends love it. but some guy sees her and the lust builds. he sees many girls like this cute one and he feels inadequate to approach her in a civilized manner. he already has his mind made up that he can’t have someone for himself. he operates in control. he doesn’t really want to just f**k her, he fantasizes about a life with her briefly before he comes back to earth and realizes he is a loser and she wouldn’t give him the time of day. that is stranger rape. control, fantasy, feelings of little self worth and anger.
many of the same mentalities apply to acquaintance rape. he knows her – she knows him. feelings of inadequacy and a growing frustration at seeing the fruit but never being able to taste it causes him to think he could have at least something while she is drunk or alone with him.
lust is pretty far down on the scale of reasons why a male rapes a female. once again it is control. he fantasizes about having sex with her but in his mind she likes it and she is happy. sometimes THOSE fantasies don’t end and he attacks. once the attack is underway he may have second thoughts. her screams might disrupt his fantasy so bad he takes her life.
who really knows what is in the mind of a rapist? only that person truly knows why they did it. but NEVER ever ever is a girl to accept blame for a rape. she can accept blame for poor judgement. but no matter what she wears or doesn’t wear, rape is not excusable nor should it ever be assumed that “she was asking for it.”
women from all walks of life like to dress prettily. are they now supposed to wear non-provocative clothing everywhere and give up something a woman is born with? she is born to attract, to nurture, to care for, to be gentle. she has the right to be a woman. a male has the right to protect her. ALL males.
rape is a crime of passion but that passion is self serving and cares nothing for the victim. rapists of every kind should be treated as murderers. same penalties, same prison sentence including death penalty. why? because at least a murderer’s victim is at peace and there is closure. ask any rape victim if the crime committed against her is truly ever over.
ps. i probably missed your point too but the subject matter begs a wide variety of feedback.
My sister was raped by a complete stranger while she was returning from a walk with our younger siblings and the dog (a tiny little thing). Apparently my other sibs saw the guy, got scared, and ran the rest of the way home leaving my other sister alone with him. Not that it was really their fault…they were only 7 and 5. I just wish they had told my mom.
No, she wasn’t dressed slutty but she was walking alone (unless you consider a 7 and 5 year old body guards for a 9 year old). It was broad daylight and only a block away from our house but criminals don’t care. They will take advantage of anyone they can. This is why it’s important to not be alone when on walks…or have a bigger dog. I’m not blaming my sister at all when I say that, either. I’m just trying to make the best of a terrible situation and glean something to learn from what happened. It is always the rapist’s fault, 100%. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to use some common sense to help stay safe so it doesn’t happen again.
@TheTheologiansCafe - I was raped when I was 15, by someone i knew… no slutty stuff going on with me, i’m a jeans and t-shirt girl.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Of all the women I know who were raped or sexually assaulted, none of them were strippers, prostitutes, had give the guy a lap dance, nor were they or did they dress slutty. It was almost always an acquaintance rape and a few stranger rapes where they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It’s like saying if you drive a Honda Accord, you are just waiting for it to get stolen. In fact, you want it to be stolen or else you’d drive a Ford. (Honda Accords are/were the most stolen car.)
@firetyger - I’m so sorry for your sister. I hope she is doing well now!
There is a difference between: Here are things to keep you safe from crime AND Well, if you walk around by yourself you will get raped, you should have known that.
One is giving advice and one is passing judgment.
I had a stalker once when I was in the Navy. Until the week or so it came out that he was “planning” a way to get me to a secluded spot and get me to have sex with him and I would “like it whether I knew it or not”… the guy had only seen me at work in my dungarees. Now, that is hardly something slutty or sexy, let me tell you! He had a red head fetish going on. I had red hair. It’s not like I should have to dye my hair to avoid being raped.
Whatever a woman wears. Where ever a woman walks. Whenever a woman leaves her home (or remains in it). She is never asking nor inviting a man to rape her. Wearing slutty clothes and walking in a bad part of town at night isn’t necessarily the smartest thing ever, but it also doesn’t mean you will get raped. Heck, you could just get mugged!
If a rapist is standing in the middle of a street and two women walk on opposite sides of the street in opposite directions. The rapist looking for a victim will choose which ever woman/situation looks like he will get away with it. The slutty-dressed woman walking on the side of crowded bar will probably get home safely vs. the church-dressed woman walking right passed a dark alley. The rapist will pick the easier victim, not sluttier dressed one.
@TiredSoVeryTired - I see what you’re saying but neither Paige nor I are passing judgment. I know some people do but that’s not what this post is, IMO.
@firetyger - Oh, I know you were just sharing your sister’s story and pointing out how it wasn’t her fault. I was just using what you said to show there’s a difference between “stay safe” and “don’t dress slutty”.
@TiredSoVeryTired - Well, unless you consider “don’t dress slutty in downtown Minneapolis” = “stay safe” which I do. Much like my sibs and I walked together in a group after what happened to my sister.
@firetyger - Dressing slutty or not isn’t going to keep you safe anywhere!
“Stay in a group of people”; however, will increase your chances of being safe anywhere!
Dressing slutty doesn’t really increase your chances of getting raped. Walking alone does.
@TiredSoVeryTired - Well, when I was a senior in high school I was being overly confident and decided to leave the Minneapolis Institute of Arts with my girl friend and walk two blocks to McDonalds instead of waiting for our ride. Neither my friend nor I were wearing anything that showed cleavage or anything like that. We were left alone. But the poor girl who was wearing a mini skirt and flashy blouse was getting hounded by five guys. I don’t know what ever happened to her, if anything. She left the restaurant before we did and they were still following, cat-calling her when she turned the corner and I could no longer see. I’d have called the cops if I had had a cell phone. My friend and I felt incredibly stupid and high-tailed it back to the art institute.
That experience solidified in my mind that it’s better to dress plain in such areas if you don’t want to be noticed. Though some monsters just don’t care and go after anyone.
@firetyger - There’s little doubt that dressing a certain way will bring attention to yourself. Men will cat call, etc. That doesn’t mean they’ll rape her or that they did rape her… and it doesn’t mean a bunch of guys didn’t see her as easy prey since she was alone. Being alone, may have been the real factor. Harder for one to get away, than it is for two to get away and call the cops on you.
@trunthepaige - as a woman who was raped at a very young age, I completely disagree with you. The majority of rape cases are not of women being too provocative. Yes being aware of your surroundings and the people around is a good tip, but come on. We cannot and should not blame the victims.
@Resilient_Light - You are not disagreeing with what i wrote. Me thinks your responding to a recommended comment and not what I wrote at all