October 4, 2012
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Debates Are About Perceptions
And little more than that. This is the best description of last nights debate I have seen yet.
Obama looked, peevish, scripted. Romney, relaxed, and owning the stage like one of the “big, swinging dicks” from Wall Street, which Obama both despises and relies upon.
And that’s the trick tonight, isn’t it? Obama has always relied on the big money men in private, while disparaging them in public. But what happens when he comes up against one of them in the most public way possible?
Now we know the answer, and it ain’t pretty.
The president appeared small and petulant and reactive. Romney looked presidential and secure and proactive. There was only one president on the stage tonight, and he doesn’t (yet) hold the office.
Its all about the way the average person sees it and that quote is the way the average person saw it. Obama did more than lose a debate it was so bad that he will lose votes over it
So for those on medication did you see Obama as the winner?
Those of us who actually watched it and saw Obama looking honorably and Romney looking great? At what point did you notice that Obama had just had his ass handed to him?
I saw that Obama was looking bad right away, but I only saw how bad it was this morning when every liberal commenting on this debate was ether depressed or angry. Even if they were saying Obama won they were pissed off. That sort of tells you the truth. Even they knew he looked bad they just did not want to admit it.
Comments (33)
And does it matter? I’ve always seen most debates geared towards people who haven’t made up their minds yet. Those who already have will read what they want into the debate. Winning and losing a debate even last nights has less to do with anything actually said and more to do with the ability to spin it. Romney has always looked more Presidential. He’s very commanding and assertive. Given his business background he’d have to be. Obama has always been more Professor than President. Now it’s up to the people to decide who would do the better job and to be honest if everything was based on facts, record and ability neither of these two would have made it this far.
@Greywalker - Exactly Campaigns are directed at the undecided. That is exactly why this debates was so damaging to Obama. No neutral minds left without seeing Obama as the weaker leader. And most people see our nation heading the wrong way. That is a bad combo for our sitting president
And that’s not exactly true. Many neutral people watched and didn’t care. Some watched and saw Romney as overly aggressive. History shows that these debates seem to only make a big impact when there’s some kind of over whelming knock out punch and there wasn’t in this one. Romney comes out being seen as he should have been seen for the past year. Romney has stabilized his campaign which is great but he still needs to get it moving forward. Romney has managed to get the attention he needed and get people looking at him positively but he needs to use the next two debates to deliver a crushing blow.
@Greywalker - He was tied to start with so I see it as very important. with Obama unable to enter the 50% support level I see him in a lot of trouble. No president has ever won reelection with less support than he had the first time. And Obama very much has less support
It was important for Romney. I’d just prefer if people didn’t treat it as a all encompassing victory. Mitt still has a ways to go before the White House and overconfidence could kill his campaign. He won a battle not the war.
See, I didn’t need to watch it.
I knew I’d get a recap from somebody. Sounds like they didn’t say anything new, so I didn’t miss much.
I saw a weak Romney, a man with inaccurate facts, and a weak philosophy, and he seemed to be pleading, begging almost, while Obama was relaxed as a leaf. But as I told you Trun, I only saw the last part. I’m sorry Romney had to be the republican nomination, huney, I’m sure America could use a republican president, but, not Romney, he is a weak man, he has no morals, only cares about money, and stands no chance on foreign policy. I think McCain would have been a better president. I’m sorry hun, it’s OBAMA’s time. Get ready for ObamaCare, another four years of him.
@RulerofMasons - I am not worried you are only agreed with by 25% of those who saw the debate. 67% saw it as an Romney blowout
@WaitingToShrug - it was good to see Obama get called out on his lies about Romney’s tax plans. Obama was left stuttering and just repeating himself without confidence unable to look anyone in the eyes. He was looking down after Romney dressed him down it was bad
Bill Maher said Romney won. He’s as left as they get. What liberal media sites are you reading??
Obama did wasn’t the biggest loser on stage that night. That title belongs to Jim Lehrer. And he received word that he might get fired in front of 40 million Americans.
@RulerofMasons - Romney was a little lose on the facts according to the fact checkers, but Obama clearly had the more lousy performance. It was almost like he winged it. I guess Libya and Egypt are weighing on him…
@davidian - I like it that he let it run away. http://www.democraticunderground.com/ these guys are losing it today i need to say i am enjoying it
@davidian - I am goig to go over the fact checking thing. Romney was mostly off on health care. Obama was flat out lying about romeny’s taxe plan
I agree. Don’t listen so much to what the partisans are saying. Partisans are going to say their guy won no matter what. Listen to who’s angry, or complaining about the moderator, or claiming the polls won’ t move much, or (just saw this about an hour ago on Twitter) that their guy actually planned on throwing the debate as part of some master plan. Denial, anger and bargaining: those are the first three stages of grief.
@Greywalker - After last night it’s looking more and more that a vote for Obama is a vote stuck on stupid.
People don’t like being stupid.
So Romney will be seen as the intelligent alternative.
We’ve got two more debates and Obama is only going to get worse and Romney is only going to get better.
@davidian - Here’s Bill Maher:
“Obama made a lot of great points tonight. Unfortunately, most of them were for Romney.”
@PrisonerxOfxLove - People tend not to see themselves as stupid regardless of how they vote. How many people sang Obama’s praises before he was elected because he was going to close Gitmo. Everyone knew he wasn’t going to close. He doesn’t have the ability to just close it. Anyone who voted for him mainly for that reason could be seen as stupid. That being said when it wasn’t closed how many of those same people ignored that fact and kept singing his praises? They will make themselves believe whatever narrative they want. Let’s be real. Obama didn’t come off as glowing in his debates with McCain either. Romney being seen as the intelligent alternative only works if people see Romney as intelligent. His position publicly is tenuous at best. Today is the post debate hype phase. The real effects of the debate will be seen Monday.
Yeah, I guess you nailed it.
@Greywalker - If Obama looks stupid and Romney looks smart, rational people will chose Romney. It’s that simple regardless of your excuses.
Obama not being able to close Gitmo is another of your excuses. Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the American armed forces. He could close Gitmo with a word.
Only liberals accept lies.
Real Americans expect people to keep their word. Republican President George Herbert Walker Bush said, “Read my lips no new taxes.” He then raised taxes. Real Americans threw him out of office.
Only liberals have no standards and accept depravity in their representative. Real Americans do not.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - There are multiple problems with that comment. First the use of the word “looks” That is a point of view. Many can be easily swayed and made to see something different. The process of campaigning is getting people to believe a specific narrative and whoever does that the best wins.
As far as Gitmo. Actually the law states that the President can’t just close any prison without going through certain steps. My point was much like Bush he shouldn’t have said it in the first place since there was no way for him to back that up.
I am disturbed by your use of “Real Americans”. What do you consider a “Real American”? If you are a citizen wouldn’t that make you a “Real American”? Are you saying liberals aren’t “Real Americans”?
@Greywalker - Gitmo is a military prison. Therefore the president has total say so.
Perception is reality in politics.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Military bases still have procedures for closing them. The rules are different but still exist.
You are correct perception is reality and perception is malleable.
What do you consider a “Real American”?
@Greywalker - Liberals are experts at process. That’s yet another reason why Obama has no excuse for not shutting down Gitmo.
America is the only country in human history that was founded on ideas, not language, ethnicity or nationality. Those ideas are:
1. E pluribis unum – out of many one.
2. In God We Trust
3. Liberty
Anyone who does not believe in those three ideas is not American.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - OK. Thank you for your time
@PrisonerxOfxLove - It’s true. Obama said a lot of things that actually improved Romney’s image among middle-of-the-road folks. Gotta love Bill Maher’s biting sarcasm.
Here are some more of my favorite Bill Maher moments from last night:
“i can’t believe i’m saying this, but Obama looks like he DOES need a teleprompter”
“Obama’s not looking like he came for a job interview, Romney so far does”
“Romney looks more confident and energetic – he’s about a minute away from holding Obama down and cutting his hair. This better be ropeadope”
@trunthepaige - Actually, that’s not true. Obama wasn’t flat out lying. There is a lot of truth in what he said, although it’s not such a simple issue. Romney has proposed lowering income tax rates, getting rid of the estate tax, and etc. that the non-partisan Tax Policy Center estimates will cost about $480 billion over 10 years.
That’s about $5 trillion dollars worth of tax cuts spread over a 10 year period starting 2015. That’s where the $5 trillion figure came from. So yes, it’s not a $5 trillion tax cut. But it is a tax policy that will cause a deficit of $5 trillion in tax revenue over 10 years.
Now there’s nothing wrong with tax cuts like that and President Bush made a lot of similar tax cuts which Obama renewed. The issue is with mounting deficits, Romney would have to make up for the lost tax revenue and the Tax Policy Center estimates that Romney would not be able to make up the difference from just closing loopholes. He would have to broaden the tax base in order to not add to the deficit.
@davidian - Other than the fact that his plan also states that he is to cut out tax deduction to make up for the lower rate and that his plan must end up renew neutral. In other words Obama lied about it by leaving out half of it. the half that made what he said not true
@trunthepaige - Obama did lie. But it wasn’t a complete lie. Only a half lie. But that’s what you do in politics and when you’re campaigning. You take a small fact and spin it to support the rhetoric and narrative you want to portray. Both sides do this.
At any rate, I would love to have lower taxes. It’s more cash in my pocket. But I also love this country and I don’t really know if Romney will be able to find enough places to make up for the lower tax revenue. I don’t think we should be talking about cutting taxes at this point in the deficit game. Let’s pay off our debts, CUT THE HELL OUT OF SPENDING, and THEN think about lowering taxes. It’s better for this country. And I’m willing to invest the few thousand in tax breaks that I’ll receive from those proposed cuts into preserving the long-term future of this great nation.
I didn’t watch it. Instead, I was at church choir practice. I think that was a better and more useful way to use my time
@Greywalker What does it matter? Did you see the Luntz Col. Ind. Voter panel? The shift in perception of Romney as a Leader as well as support was striking.
Debates give equal footing to challengers and allow access to the limelights without the earned or paid media filters. Romney had been demonized throughout the summer. Did those scurrilous accusations sticck? No. Did Obama have the stones to repeat his campaigns more outrageous ad hominem attacks side by side? No. I guess that the lack of TOTUS and not having a media phalanx made that tact inoperative.
Debates open the door and help frame perceptions http://goo.gl/Ks632
if you get romney – you’re going to war with Iran
@OwenHiggins - and you know this how? That war will be started by Iran if it happens at all or a first strike by Israel. Obama has no power on that nor will Romney. Seeming weak as Obama does has never been a good thing with Islamic powers. They do not seem to know that its been our less hawkish presdents who have have taken the usa into most of its wars. If you look into Bush pre 2001 sept 11. He was a none interventionist until that day. More so than Obama claimed to be but turned out not to be
Obama needs 34 more years to get all Bush screwed up fixed