October 15, 2012
-
But Bush did it
Tu quoque, the appeal to hypocrisy, ( you did that as well ) is a logical fallacy that attempts to attack an opponent’s position, by saying that their opponent failed to act consistently in the past. If they really held the belief they are arguing for, they would have done things differently in the past. This dismisses someone’s point of view based on criticism of the person’s inconsistency, and not the position presented. Its a personal attack that avoids the subject, a diversion from the topic.
This attack could be used against a veteran for taking a position against murder or even war, by saying that the veteran had killed many people when he was at war.
It is often used against a parent who is a recovering drug addict or alcoholic, for telling their child not to do drugs or get drunk. “But you did it”
And in politics it is used every time you point out that someone they support is lying, being a jerk ,or acting incompetently.
Even if what they say is true, and most of the time its not a good comparison. That fact does not justify their hero lying does it?
Do you think that if the other guy does something wrong, it gives you the right to do the same thing?
Comments (55)
I have the right to die. but it would be wrong to inflict such upon myself.
First of all, do you honestly think going to war against terrorists, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Saddam, Obama, ect, was a mistake? Who did what wrong?
@notforprophet - @RushmoreJ - fixed
@trunthepaige - hehe
@RulerofMasons - If it is wrong, or isn’t wrong, is not an excuse for the next guy to do worse things or even the same things.
No I do not think it was wrong to kill terrorists. I thing recent history has shown bush might have made a mistake. But it was not all wrong or all a mistake Obama has kept most of Bush’s policies intact so Obama agrees with Bush a lot. And Bush’s statements were not an intentional lies. But even if you think they were. Obama has not been given an excuse lie because of it
“Do you think that if the other guys does something wrong, it gives you the right to do the same thing?”
no. but the issue is that conservatives come across as self-righteous and holier-than-thou in their attacks. if you don’t want your past brought up, don’t try to act like you’ve never done anything wrong yourself. that’s called lying.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Conservatives self righteous? What the crap would you call how Biden acted in the debate.If EVER there was self righteousness,its by that man.It’s funny to me how you all can accuse someone of something you do the very same thing but when you do it is perfectly fine,but when they do it,oh my,they are such a self righteous bigot homophobe.The shoe fits on both feet my dear.
I REALLY do want to know who Obama is going to blame for the mess he inherits if he wins again.Gas is twice the cost it was when he became Pres,unemployment is double,tons more folks have lost their houses to foreclosure and I could go on and on.Will he just keep blaming Bush or will he blame Romney and Ryan even tho they will not have had a thing to do with HIS policies.Hypocrosy run amuck should be the slogan for Obama now.
@flapper_femme_fatale - In other words you fall for that logical fallacy every time its used, if you like the person’s politics who is using it.
@Somefishytales - The funny thing is if Obama wins the fools who support him will blame the Republicans for the fact that Obama polices keep failing. Look at California it has been a mess long before the rest of the nation was if far worse than the rest of the nation and its not getting better. The Republicans have been out of power in that state for a generation, yet fools they are, they still blame the Republicans
I won’t take the bait this time cuz i’m a bit short of time, so here my opinion:
I think it’s stupid to base your vote in who wins in the blaming routine, I don’t even like it within a marriage, distracts the attention away from real issues and possible solutions so falling into that (which both parties do) seems to me a very low trick to fool the voters.
I think candidates should be gentlemen and don’t name each other or the rival side within the contest but only talk about their own political, finantial and social plan. That would be the stuff I’d like to base my vote on.
I blame Bush for everything. It is his fault.
@trunthepaige - Funny that you mention CA. Romney got an 8% bump in the polls there. Will CA vote R.? Highly unlikely. Are people wakin up? Definitely.
Fuck-a-doodle-doo! One need only go to the grocery store or the gas station to grasp the reality of inflation.
As to your question; two wrongs don’t make a right. While Romney is “blamed” for passing many liberal policies, the fact is that he was the governor of one of the most liberal states in the country. And this was done on a state, not federal, level. In fact, that was one question in the Romney/Obama debate that stood out to me.Romney dealt with an 87% D. congress and reached across the aisle to make great things happen for the state. Obama’s reply? Sometimes you have to put your foot down with the R.’s. Thanks, Mr. Prez. Is it tee-off time yet?
@xXxlovelylollipop - bait? i do not understand that. But your comment was good
@Kellsbella - What is funny is that a 8% swing does not put Romney anywhere near a tie. California is not exactly opened mined these days
@TheTheologiansCafe - I’m still blaming Reagan
@trunthepaige - just saying I don’t have time to get into large debates today
@xXxlovelylollipop - Not likely to get into a debate, I agree with you. Sadly that way does not work very often
i think its like a girl who holds her body agaist you
what you do in the past, stays in the past as far as I am concerned. ‘Two wrongs do not make a right’ is debatable and case sensitive to me though. Say Nixon and the Watergate scandal. Jimmy Carter, did the same but righted and centered it by doing so eh?
“Do you think that if the other guy does something wrong, it gives you the right to do the same thing?”
No, because that’s just stooping to his level. Be the bigger person in the situation.
@Somefishytales -
“What the crap would you call how Biden acted in the debate.”
wouldn’t know, i didn’t watch it. debates are for the undecided voter.
“It’s funny to me how you all can accuse someone of something you do the very same thing but when you do it is perfectly fine,but when they do it,oh my,they are such a self righteous bigot homophobe.”
being a bigot and a homophobe are unrelated to whether someone is self-righteous. i wouldn’t call the Pope self-righteous (i do believe he has more faith in God than in himself), but i WOULD call him a bigot.
but yes, i do single out conservatives. why? because you’re the “religious right” that preaches about how gay people, welfare recipients, and sexually active teenagers are destroying America… while demonizing anyone who disagrees with you. even the OP of this post can’t admit that Bush screwed up, yet she’s happy to blame Obama for everything under the sun. and THAT’S why i’ll take Obama at his worst over a conservative at his best ANY day. you haven’t proven that your conservative politicians learned anything from the Bush administration. you can’t run on a purely “I’m not Obama” platform and expect to have your past mistakes overlooked or forgiven. your god forgives… i don’t
@trunthepaige - see the above. Mitt Romney is just another Bush. why would i want that back in office?
@flapper_femme_fatale - You just may be one of the most blind people to reality on Xanga LOL Oh well!
@flapper_femme_fatale - in other words yes you fall for every lie and fallacious argument you want to believe. And hear no truth you do not want to believe. I hope you make it through the coming election in good shape.
You realize, though, that if Mitt Romney gets elected and Obama’s policies fall flat, Democrats will simply blame Romney?
My comment here is just a general reply to the other comments.
You know what i’ll never blame? Bacon….its always been good to me
@UnconventionalButterfly - follow George Takei on facebook and you’ll get to see the “Should you eat that bacon?” flowchart.
(hint: you should)
@Somefishytales - i don’t know what dimension you exist in. but in my everyday life, welfare recipients are not the spawn of Satan out to cheat the government. that alone tells me how delusional conservative ideology is.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Hahaha I’ve seen it
@trunthepaige - interesting that all you could do is repeat yourself, instead of offer any evidence that Romney wouldn’t be Bush 2.0… thanks for proving my point
and don’t worry about me. it’s your side who seems to be gearing up for Civil War II.
No, not at all. I am responsible and accountable for my own choices. I can’t justify my behavior by pointing at someone else.
i could lots more but i did not see the point in it. its just beating a dead hourse @flapper_femme_fatale -
@Baseballchik138 - very true
Exactly.
I didn’t care for drone strikes when Bush did it, and I sure as hell don’t care for drone strikes now that Obama is doubling down on it.
It’s why I say: fuck both of them.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, so no.
Have you been watching the debates or something, to spark this post?HAGD!
You are right, of course, but both sides are guilty. The point is to have, exercise, and keep power over people. The great difference is that those who founded this society put all they had on the line to bring it to life. There is a nobility to the leader who puts all on the line to create a nation. The leaders we have today, on both sides, expect us to pay for them to remain in power, so they can be enriched at our expense.
Doesn’t matter the tactics they use, the point is the American people are the ones who get used.
Obama 2012
That’s all I came to say.
yes that will make a great last year for him@ninetailedevee -
what sparked it was my pointing out Obama’s massive string of lies and policy failures and Libya. 2 of the responses I got were why weren’t you mad with Bush screwed up. the fact is if I was mad or wasn’t mad in another time is irrelevant. @Want2FitIn2Fat2Fit -
@trunthepaige - Ah I see, and hasn’t every president screwed up somehow?
I think that many times, the “hypocrites” are in the best position to warn others of potential pitfalls and can actually depend on personal experience when they say not to do something that they’ve done. At bottom, hypocrisy just another form of optimism, right?
2 wongs don’t make a white, you know?
or a purple
@hizzoMYnizzo -
that is especially true of the parent analogy@TutelageOfTheMundane -
@trunthepaige - but that’s my point: i think it’s very relevant. i grew up and became politically aware in the Bush era. from my experience, that’s what a conservative Presidency looks like: unnecessary wars, unpaid tax breaks for the wealthy, etc. i have no reason to think that Romney won’t be any different. the message “I’m not Bush” is more relevant to me than “I’m not Obama.”
so, when i hear you attack ONLY Obama, the message sent to me is: Bush wasn’t that bad. no matter what i may disagree with Obama on, or dislike about what he’s done, i’ll take him over another Bush any day. to say that what Bush did is irrelevant is to appear to have amnesia. after all, the financial collapse happened under his watch. he’s just as responsible for letting it happen as Obama is for not fixing it fast enough.
yes I know and your entire point is fallacious. even if what you say is true which it’s not true. what I was talking about is still wrong obama lied he lied over a very bad for a policy incompetence@flapper_femme_fatale -
@trunthepaige - i’m not saying that Obama is perfect. there’s plenty i disagree with him on. but that doesn’t turn your side into flawless saints. so, Obama lied… Bush lied, too. why should i believe Romney won’t?
Doesn’t it all come down to what our mama’s told us? “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” Or how about “I know I’m not perfect and I don’t live to be, but before you start pointing fingers make sure your hands are clean!” Like.. people are not allowed to grow and learn from their mistakes without people constantly bringing up the bleepin’ past?? ESPECIALLY if one has already admitted to mistakes, I think it’s completely ridiculous to bring them up again.. BUT we all do it Lol. Touchy subject, and ESPECIALLY for you Americans atm wow!!! See, because I was drawing off my own experiences when I commented but then I read all the other comments and it’s all political so I was like o.O
I suppose it depends on what he or she did wrong…politically or in a general sense…probably not. But if it’s of a more personal nature…something that affected me, yes. IE- an eye for an eye
No I don’t think it gives me the “right” to do something wrong, or to make the same choices that other person made. I think, since I am naturally a contrary person, I would strive to make the best choice for myself and for others.
@iheartsurrealism - Seems like the only way to do it. But bias makes for a very strong facts filter. The hypocrite often does not see that they are being one
@trunthepaige - True dat.
Where did you go? I miss reading your blog.
@Thebraziliandude - I have been busy I will be back but I doubt many will still be here. I am on facebook a lot still and twitter. Twitter I am trunthepaige and easy to find