May 21, 2013
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Boys will be Girls and Girls will be Boys
It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for … No one really.
I have been observing a friend of a friend, who has really gone through some changes this year. Well not that many changes, just some hormones and make up mostly. He grew his hair out and now says he is a she. That was shock to “her” school mates. She is now all of 16 years old, and she is still sporting a penis. But details details, she says she is a she and who I am to notice a little thing like that
Things I have leaned form her.
At 16 years old, if your parents say its ok you can get a sex change operation.
Its not very hard to get a court order to make you your official birth certificate tell lies. Yes he now has a birth certificate that says she was born with a different name and a different sex than she really was. Oh and officially she is a now girl even though she doesn’t look much like one and has a penis. In other words all the official documents are now lying. She has not even had any surgery yet. She it just a boy saying she is a girl and waring a dress and make up. But the legal record now says she was always a girl, she was born that way.
Oh and she finds the way girls act and think very confusing and is always asking for help. Oh well life is odd that is not my concern.
Should legal documents lie, in order to make someone feel better?
Comments (92)
Wow. You really do not like transsexuals do you?
Anyway, I don’t see the harm in it. Unless you see the harm in gay men using the men’s restroom for example, I don’t see what the BFD is. I can’t imagine what being born the wrong biological sex must be like, which is why I refuse to pass judgment upon them. Most medical associations worldwide agree that transition and recognition as the gender they identify as are medically necessary to treat so-called gender identity “disorder” so I’m OK with it if the medical community agrees it’s for the best.
A major part of the leftist agenda is to dumb down and confuse the hell out of the youth.
Brainwashing is accomplished by putting the victim into a state of emotional distress and then exposing him non-stop to a particular idea or set of ideas.
I should know.
I am a former US public school teacher.
@secretbeerreporter - You don’t see the harm because, like the poor kid in this blog, you suffer from the same sort of profound, gut wrenching confusion.
Clear your head, get a brain and then you will see the light.
I’ve had a few transsexuals in classes. None of them completed their program — note: the sample was too small to draw any conclusions… however, they all were squeaky wheels (trouble for their schoolmates). By my experience, I think we need a new gender code.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Unless you know what it’s like to be born in the wrong body, I feel you have no qualification to speak on the matter.
@secretbeerreporter -
Actually, the latest DSM-V TR reclassified Gender identity disorder to Gender Dysphoria in (1) Children and (2) Adults and Adolescents. Thus, it is no longer considered a pathological disorder. The implication, though, is that insurances can reinterpret GID as being either medical or cosmetic. For example, if someone is diagnosed with GD, then it depends entirely on whether or not physical harm may come to this person if no gender reassignment is done.
In other words, attitude such as yours forced the APA to reclassify GID from being a pathology to something far less severe. While it removes the stigma associated with calling GID an actual disorder, it removes the potential insurance coverage for many like the trans in Paige’s post.
So your contention that “medical community agrees it’s for the best” falls far short of the mark. Because actual gender reassignment and associated surgeries are now going to be more commonly classified as cosmetic needs rather than medical needs.
@secretbeerreporter - You do not see changing a birth certificate as a lie?
He’s even got you calling him a she.
It’s stupid, really. Live your life how you want, but even post-op, you still haven’t changed your gender. Turning a penis into a vagina facsimile is just more severe than wearing makeup, but you’re still male.
Side note: if you can’t read, and comprehend what you read, don’t bother replying to my comment ppl.
@RealisticIdealist - What do you think of the legal lie of changing the birth certificate? And doing it long before you really could be considered a different sex?
@secretbeerreporter - Everybody on earth is born with some sort of misery they have to contend with.
Your freakish philosophy on self imposed extinction even has that right.
Kids need to understand that male and female is human nature. That way they can make peace with any sexual maladies they may have ASAP.
Enabling the confusion leads to terminally miserable people like you.
And no, the documents shouldn’t have intentionally false information.
@Hunt4Truth - I would never rush surgery, I understand that changing their mind about it is not so rare. But they little lie on the birth certificate strikes me as well illegal
Addendum:
In other words, the current medical community views gender identity disorder as:
It’s okay for you to be born with the wrong body. But since you can still live a healthy life in your wrong body, you will simply need to live with that fact because it is not medically necessary to perform surgery to correct your wrong body. In fact, the drive for political correctness cheapened your cause by basically categorizing it with someone who thinks he/she was born with the wrong nose.
@trunthepaige - Absolutely not. I see it more as being who that person truly is. What you’re born does not necessarily dictate who you are.
@Ghillies_guide - Not even addressing if trying to change genders is a good idea. Lying to help with it seems well just that a lie
@secretbeerreporter - A birth certificate does state who you where at birth.
I know. Just spoke my mind on the issue, and I followed up with an on topic answer when I realized I’d forgotten.
@RealisticIdealist - They do hurt their case by pushing to be seen as normal and not sick. You cant have it all ways at the same time
@trunthepaige - Then maybe birth certificates should not contain such information. Gender is a social, not a biological construct. Really biological sex doesn’t mean much. Gender (a psychological/social construct rather than a biological one) says more about a person than their DNA.
@trunthepaige - I think we should ask the person who ends up sleeping with him/her. “But your driver’s license said you’re female!”
In all seriousness, “gender” as most commonly perceived is more based on physical rather than mental status. Penis? Male. Vagina? Female. That is, until doctors develop a way to identify babies’ gender identity at the moment of birth through some non-physical manner.
Although, in rare cases, hermaphroditus warrants additional consideration. But that’s for another topic
(Incidentally, the medical diagnosis for hermaphroditus relies on physical examination, rather than mental. Otherwise bisexual men and women would all be diagnosed with mental hermaphroditus such that bisexual men might demand surgical vaginas and women demand surgical penises)
@secretbeerreporter - That is one of the silliest things I have ever heard. The birth certificate states your sex. And sex is far from a social construct, its biological fact that holds true in every cell of your body.
@secretbeerreporter -
Actually, the current classification of gender at birth relies exclusively on biological sex. Can you propose a way to identify gender at birth without relying on biological sex?
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - The fact that it’s better never to have been born is neither here nor there. Once they are brought into existence (which I do agree is unfortunate for them as it is for the rest of us) they should do whatever is necessary to minimize their suffering. For those who believe they are born in the wrong body, that includes recognition as the person they truly believe they are.
@trunthepaige -
In other words, I can’t re-classify myself as causasian simply because I’m white-washed, just like how Eminem can’t call himself African American.
@RealisticIdealist - Easy: leave it off entirely, until the true psychological gender of the person in question emerges. Seems simple enough.
@RealisticIdealist - It seems your birth certificates states you sex not gender preference. Maybe a case can be made for driver licenses. That is an interesting and scary thought. “Gender fraud”. It seems honesty in that would be very important
@trunthepaige - Gender and biological sex are not synonymous terms despite the fact that religitards such as yourself try to force that.
@RealisticIdealist - Exactly its simply a fraud. With a judges say so history and reality are reinvented. Or a better way to say it. they lie
@secretbeerreporter -
Your proposed “easy” solution is fraught with difficulties in implementation. It’s rather clear that you have neither had nor cared for a child. The requirement of gender identification is ubiquitous. Nice try, though.
The only reason you feel the way you do is because that lying sack of shit book you believe is the “word of God” says so. If you weren’t a Christard (or Muslimtard, Jewtard, etc.) you wouldn’t feel this way.
@secretbeerreporter -
And thus, your true colors are shown here. Whereas we attempt to engage you in a civil discussion, you resort to insults and name-calling. I guess this is the last option when all your contentions are refuted. Have a nice day.
@secretbeerreporter -
And for the record, I am not religious at all, considering that I lived in an atheist communist country until 10 years old. Even in a Godless society, we dichotomize society by gender as identified by our biological sex. So truly, your criticism of Paige based on her religious preference, once again, falls far short of its mark, like most of your other contentions.
sure… they get new social security, licenses, and whatever after the BC. Essentially, a boy becomes a girl or a girl becomes a boy… Now, how about what to do about public rest rooms in a school. That was interesting.
@RealisticIdealist - Refuted? Give me a break. You’ve not refuted any of my claims, just spouted off religious garbage. What a joke.
@secretbeerreporter - Gee that is new insult and oh so clever. (sarcasm)
(in a condescending voice)
Dude it does not say gender preference on a birth certificate. It states what your sex is. And your sex is not changeable or an option in life. And even if sex could be changed, saying you were born something you were not born, is a lie. Do you understand the conversation now?
@trunthepaige - Then what do you think we should do? Should we force them to be miserable their entire lives? Well that’s just great. And people wonder why I’m an antinatalist. It’s sadistic folks such as yourself that make life harder than it already is for these poor souls. Yeah, life sucks enough as it is, let’s just force them to be someone they feel deep down they aren’t and psychologically torture them for life because we’re uncomfortable with it. Of course.
@secretbeerreporter -
How could I have said anything religious if I’m not religious at all? If your arguments stood, how come you are devolving so quickly into belligerence? Because you realized the following:
@RealisticIdealist - Its funny you struck me as extremely secular. I do not know if you are an atheists or not. But your reasoning showed no signs of a religious influence. My question did regard law, not morality, so that was the proper way to address what I was talking about
@secretbeerreporter -
Your prejudice against the LGBT community fully permeates your post. Who says gender re-classification is vital to transsexual’s happiness? Even if they receive their gender re-classification, now that they are no longer guaranteed medical coverage for physical reassignment, how can they deal with the challenges that come with it? Should female restrooms be equipped with urinals? What would their date say who believe them to be who they are not physically? That, is when the true misery begins: misrepresenting their physical sex.
As much as you would like to argue that gender is internal, perception remains reality. A penis remains the hallmark of a man. A vagina remains the hallmark of a woman.
@secretbeerreporter - Are you trying to say legal documents should be changed, into a lie, in order to make someone feel good and not need to explain that they have had a sex change?
@trunthepaige -
I’ve tried to give Christianity a go when I attended a private liberal arts college. I suppose I was fully indoctrinated into not following organized religion.
With that said, I actually consider myself a social liberal and fiscal conservative. But logic dictates all my thoughts, which is why sometimes I might say things you might find disagreeable. That’s for a different conversation though. I enjoy engaging in civil discussions, and find your replies inquisitive and courteous.
@RealisticIdealist - What does that have to do with it? I fully support LGBT rights. I don’t know where you got that idea.
So they’re no longer guaranteed medical coverage for reassignment. Fair enough, that was a blunder by the APA in that case. But it’s easy enough to use a stall. I did the entire time I was wearing a device on my penis to restore my foreskin (mainly because I had to pee sitting down as a result of the stretching device, but you get the point), and I’m male and identify as male. It was easy enough to conceal and nobody was the wiser. Same thing here.
It’s not that hard to conceal, and thus it’s no big deal unless you’re going to raise that problem otherwise. Which, that goes back to the issue I brought up: are you against gay men using a men’s restroom? It’s no different than that really.
@trunthepaige - Considering the probable implications from future employers, yes. You know as well as I do a vast majority of employers wouldn’t hire someone they knew had a sex change. It’s for the protection of the individuals in question.
@secretbeerreporter - So it was a blunder for the APA to remove the stigma attached with GID? Because people like you actually lobbied for it to be removed from the DSM V to begin with!
As for hiding the penis, you can hide it for a while, but you can’t hide it forever. Imagine the shock of the man who thought he had been dating a woman, only for a little something extra to pop out.
As for sharing bathrooms, of course I have no issues with it. But the real issue once again comes down to the fact that there are certain physical differences you can’t simply “wish” away. Even if a female identifies herself as male, she is still going to have her period. Whereas female restrooms commonly have disposal containers for tampons and pads, male restrooms don’t. So should male restrooms be fitted with such containers? Who should foot the cost? Should the 97% foot the cost to accommodate the 3%?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions (oops, religious reference there?). No matter how well-intended your proposals are, there are severe consequences.
@secretbeerreporter - Employers do not see your birth certificate unless you choose to use it for an ID. But the truth is you are saying that they should be lied to
@secretbeerreporter -
Actually, most corporate employers are making responses to sex optional. I have contacts with senior HR managers from at least 20 different Fortune 500 companies. They collectively say that sex is not even something they consider in the application. Those statistics go directly to their database for equal opportunity hiring statistics.
@RealisticIdealist - Again, there are ways around it. 1) Don’t date (probably better for everyone), 2) continuous use of birth control (i.e. skipping the sugar pills, doing so will cease menstruation so long as you continue the cycle). I know a few women who haven’t had a period in literally years doing this. It’s not as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be.
It’s not that big of a deal, really. And the APA could have made an easy workaround. Re-named the condition as they did, but kept the prescribed treatment the same. In dropping saying that reassignment was medically necessary, they didn’t do the transsexual community any favors. They hurt them.
@trunthepaige - Well, seeing as how driver’s licenses must reflect birth certificates by law, there’s the problem with that.
@secretbeerreporter - Well no there is not. Its done the same way as a name change. And two its still a lie
@trunthepaige - So you think they should be required to give a potential employer a reason to not hire them that has nothing to do with their (lack of) qualifications for the job. Lovely. Like I said, you’re all for making their already difficult lives more difficult. You are a disgusting human being if you think that’s OK.
@secretbeerreporter - Knowing the truth and being unconfused reduces suffering.
You are advocating confusion and are enabling a psychopathology. That increases misery.
@secretbeerreporter - The state has no right to create documents that lies. And a personal note if you cant tell the truth to an employer, you should not take the job based on a lie.
@trunthepaige - Everybody lies. Yes, that includes you whether you want to admit it or not. If nobody lied, nobody would be employed. That’s just the way this world works. The successful ones in life are the ones who lie, cheat, and steal the most. So in that regard I see no problem with it.
Gender is a state of mind. Who’s to say that a penis is not a vagina and a vagina is not a penis?
I don’t really know what you have against people with GID (like myself, as you know). The way I look at it is if someone decides that they want to fully pursue gender reassignment, that is their choice, and them having legal documents changed to reflect that does nothing to me as an individual. It doesn’t change a single factor about MY life except for having to change the pronouns I use if I am friends with that person. I would do so out of simple respect. Why does it really matter? Why do people take such offense to it? That is what I don’t understand.
@secretbeerreporter - so you don’t believe that transgendered should ever date? Wow. Such bigotry. Off label use of prescription drugs can land you in deep, deep trouble.
@secretbeerreporter - Whatever guy I cant take your call to being a sociopath all that seriously. As i said you never need to show your birth certificate to get a job. And expecting the government to lie to help your self esteem is well whacked
@thegunslingergirl - You think the government should lie for you and say you where born something you were not? The expect them to change your birth records to say what you want to be true even though its not true at all? And certainly it was not true when you were born
@thegunslingergirl - SO the truth mean nothing to you?
@trunthepaige - But you do need to show your driver’s license or some form of identification which contains all the same information, so it’s one half dozen or the other (unless someone uses a fake ID which is exactly what you’re proposing would lead to). One way or another what you are advocating will absolutely quash all transsexual people and make them unemployable. Given your way you’d probably execute all of them anyway (just like your holy book calls for the execution of gays it by extension would call for their execution too) so I should expect nothing less from your ilk.
So? Let a person be who they want to be. Doesn’t affect my life if a boy becomes a woman. Good for her. I have my own life to live.
I just wish we would look at this more as a mental problem to be fixed than trying to change everything else, and tell lies. I find it so interesting how differently this is approached than other issues. Because no matter how many documents they change, no matter how many surgeries they use to alter their body, no matter how many hormones they take to pretend otherwise, the science of their DNA clearly shows what they ARE. And it just seems like we need to find out what the problem is in their mind about that instead of doing everything else. Just because it can be done does not mean it is the best way to handle things. Learning to deal with reality the way it actually is seems to me to be a better way of handling it. And nothing is more real than DNA.
@RealisticIdealist - 1) I don’t believe anyone should date, period. I don’t believe in dating, I don’t believe in relationships, and I don’t believe in love. If you need a significant other to validate yourself you have problems. I’m applying that same standard to all individuals so you can’t call me a bigot.
2) Health risks aside, there is a way around the issue and I demonstrated that to you. Sorry you’re too dense to accept that.
@trunthepaige - Postulating that the “truth means nothing” to me is kind of rather insulting. I’m bowing out of this. Until someone comes up with a reason why having their sex changed on their birth certificate directly impacts the rest of humankind in any negative fashion then I’m still sticking with my opinion that it really does not matter whether or not you keep the M or the F from your birth certificate your entire life.
@secretbeerreporter - Teenagers have no idea who they are and as such shouldn’t be considering doing permenent damage to themselves.
I recommend that the kid wait til he’s at least 30 years old before even considering crippling himself with a sex change operation.
I think it is wrong to change your birth certificate. If you want to change your gender/get a sex change, etc. whatever. But to change your official birth document is wrong because your sex at birth is your sex no matter how much you want to change it. Your hormones and cells can never be altered even if your sexual organs can be. It’s like the athletic example you brought up some time ago. Even if a male decides he wants to be female, his biological make up gives him an unfair edge over his born female competition. How is that fair when we have sports that are divided based on biological sex?
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Not really much different from sterilization. I got a vasectomy when I was very young. I was not coerced into the decision. Should I not have been allowed to do that?
This is no different.
You sparked a blog of my own with this one. http://mtngirlsouth.xanga.com/773362571/i-dont-think-im-ever-going-to-get-the-whole-gender-issue-stuff/
@thegunslingergirl - Changing what your birth certificate says is lying. Its a legal document that state certain facts at your birth. Those facts never change, its history it cant change. You are asking the state to lie and say something that was never true. Yes it should be insulting for me to say that you would have no concern about a legal document being changed into a lie. Amusing you now understand, I assume you are honest and admit that it is wrong to do that. The state should not be altering a document to say you were born something you were not
Notice that all of those taking a stand against transsexuals are religious. Just gives me more reason to believe that we need to exterminate all religion/religious people completely for fucking everything up.
Paige, she is 16. Stop looking at her penis.
Shoot it in the head and put it out of misery.
I don’t believe changing a birth certificate is a good idea. A drivers license obtained post-op, ok, but a birth certificate reflects nothing more than the parts you were born with. Interestingly enough, I had a false birth certificate when I started school, my parents didn’t want it known that I was adopted. I don’t see the point or importance in either case.
@secretbeerreporter - Dude why would anyone care what you have to say. You also think everyone need to kill themselves and should never have been born. The state lying means little to you
@jersey_jenn - Exalcy you di not need to have the sate lie for you. You can call yourself anything you want
@trunthepaige - That’s neither here nor there. Antinatalism has nothing really to do with this other than the fact that yes, it would have even been better for them never to have been born. That said, since they were born, why not try to make their miserable existence a little less miserable? Is that not a kind thing to do? Well, kindness never was your forte anyway so I wouldn’t expect you to know what that is.
Like I said, you’d rather just see them out of work, on the streets, and being punished for what you believe is a grave sin against your non-existent “God.” You’ve yet to provide a solid argument because there is none that isn’t rooted in religion.
@secretbeerreporter - Learning to accept and life with our shortcomings and disabilities is the first step toward reducing suffering.
Who ever said that getting a sex change reduced suffering? All of today’s dummies just accept that sort of BS as if it were Gospel.
@secretbeerreporter - No, you shouldn’t have been allowed to sterilize yourself if you were under 18 and still a dependent.
Being virile and potent is a critical part of being a man. You cut off your manhood before you had a chance to find out what it was.
And now there is no going back.
The whole argument of “being born in the wrong body” does not apply to this situation. It’s a bogus argument. You stated that the individual has to ask advice on how to ACT like a girl. Therefore, they were not born in the wrong body, making this particular instance full of lies on the legal documents.
I believe in absolute truth.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I know in person someone who had a sex change. It made her feel tons better about herself. Despite being disowned by her family made up of religious fuckwits like yourself, she became a happier person (read: reduction in suffering) after she completed her transition. That’s enough evidence for me.
And also, I was 23 when I got sterilized, though by your standards you said that was still too young. At least I did my part by ensuring I’ll never subject any more poor, innocent souls to this crappy thing called life. If anything, I should be lauded for that. Transsexuals too, due to their inherent inability to reproduce. They are reducing suffering by not bringing new life into the world. It’s these goddamn breeders who are the real problem. Not transsexuals, not homosexuals, and certainly not me.
@secretbeerreporter - How do you know anything about happy?
Obviously you know absolutely nothing.
Happiness isn’t gained by possessions, status or sex changes.
For that reason, among many, I know that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I know plenty. Happiness is the absence of suffering. It’s really that simple. In life, there is no such thing as good per se (as all human experiences are either neutral or negative), just less badness.
The person in question’s life got less bad after having a sex change. She still has a very bad qualify of life (as we all do – for even the best lives are of very bad quality), but it’s less bad than it was before.
@secretbeerreporter - Happiness is not the absense of suffering.
Happy people suffer.
To live is to suffer. Happiness grows as we accept suffering and pursue our heart’s desire.
@Randy7777 - That seems to be a rare thing. These guys are not arguing over being nice to transgenders. Its all about the movement lying on an official document. Seems the courts should alter past history and change a document . I thought this one was a no brainier
@grim_truth - That poor girl. No one has the heart to say it to her. One she was not a bad looking buy and she makes a really ugly girl. And two she like a typical guy of the nerdy sort who is none emotional, super logical and well guy like. The sort of shy guy who is clueless about girls has decided that he really is a girl. Doctors can really screw people up. Sadly mom and dad have the money to give him all the treatment he needs. So he is seeing the surgeon as soon as possible
So this was not an “amendment” to the birth certificate? No, I don’t think documents should be fraudulent. My birth certificate is a pack of lies, with a fake father name – completely made up. I found the truth of my father’s identity last year, and I want an adjudication of facts of parentage so that I can consider my birth certificate valid. I want my father’s name on it. I don’t want an “amendment”. I am surprised that I can’t seem to manage to find an attorney who can do this for a full-grown adult.
@merfolklore - To make it accurate… odd because they simply changed the name and sex and called it an official copy of the original in this case
That is odd. What I’ve seen of public records here in California is that amendments are made, but the original still stands.
@merfolklore - I believe its about 10 states that totally change them
There’s a reason you have to be 18 to get a tattoo. 16 is simply too young for a child to make irreversible decisions. Some will do it anyway, but what good is a parent who won’t help his kid understand there’s so much left to learn before you do something that can never be undone.
@blonde_apocalypse - Parents are being convinced that all things can be cured with a pill or a knife.